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Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 16
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 10:23 am    Post subject: Nuts flush draw. Check, call or raise ? Reply with quote

This is position that caused brainstorming discussion on another forum.
2 situations:
1. You limp in with Ace Hearts Ten Hearts after 4 more limpers. BB checks and
5 players see the flop Queen Spade Seven Hearts Four Hearts .
BB checks, UTS bets and all 3 limpers call. What you do ?
2. Same hand, same flop but you are on BB. 5 opponents behind.
What you do now ?
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Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would most likely just call instead of raise. By raising you aren't going to get a free card on the turn if it doesn't hit as easily because there are so many players. But more so, by just calling, if it does hit, you are hoping the same player bets because then you can get callers in between you and theb etter, so when you raise the turn, you will get much more money in the pot. If you do raise the flop and you hit the turn, it might be checked to you, in which case you will not win nearly as many bets than if you just called and are able to raise after several callers already have money in the pot.
2. I do the same thing, I check-call the flop. And then check-raise the turn. That is if I am sure the same person will bet or someone behind me will bet. My goal in this situation is to get as much money as possible in the middle on the turn. I want to check, have the next guy bet, get a bunch of calls, and then raise, hope someone reraises so I can cap it. Then pray the board doesn't pair on the river.
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Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Assuming this hand to be in a bubble, and you don't care about setting up future plays or table image, I raise that flop all the time. You're close to a 40% chance to win the whole pot, so every extra bet 4 people can put in on the flop is in your favor in the long-run. Playa makes a good point though, and makes me think smooth-calling might be better in case you hit the turn. But if the turn comes heart I think a lot of players, at least the good ones, will fold to one bet, assuming one of the many callers likely made a flush, and will certainly fold to your raise. So I still say raise the flop because it's mathematically with you. Call or check a missed turn. If you hit, some players will be less likely to give you credit for the flush because of the flop raise and pay you off.

I know I said "assuming this hand to be in a bubble," but it's worth mentioning that raising draws does help get you action, even if you're just doing it for rock-like mathematical reasons.
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Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 6
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are playing low limit. Raise till this moon drops no matter what.

Higher limits, I guess, I'd call the flop. Then raise the turn to the moon.
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Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 121
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definite raise, although I would raise it a little more candidly - smaller raises, getting bigger as the cards turn. Raise at the flop, raise higher on the turn and raise higher still on the river. You have already warned players of your strong hand by raises earlier on in the game, so if they want to take on that hand then thats fine by you.
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